Xorg problem on ancient hardware

Brainwright · posted: 2013-07-17 18:34

Hey there! I'm an inexperienced user trying to use the latest AntiX on an ancient HP Laptop, and I was drawn to this distro because it mentioned the ability to use xvesa instead of xorg in some apparently out-of-date FAQ.

Naturally, when I started trying to install, there was no such option. The hardware seems to wither and die at the merest hint of Xorg, and I've tried at least eight different versions of Linux. It will start up for a second, beautiful desktop and all, the screen will go black, and then it will come back. The mouse pointer is gone, and the keyboard is unresponsive. The machine is effectively frozen.

Only xvesa has worked in my experience, and if I can't use that, is there an option for an ultra-super-safe mode that isn't clearly visible from the default installer?

dolphin_oracle · posted: 2013-07-17 19:53

can you post the model number of your HP laptop?

BitJam · posted: 2013-07-17 19:56

Using boot parameter"3" will put in in runlevel 3 which doesn't even try to start X. You will only have the command line though.

I think PuppyLinux uses Xvesa. Have you tried that?

Brainwright · posted: 2013-07-18 00:11

Puppy works with the laptop, but this experiment has been specifically to move on to something less squirrely and better supported. So I looked for a Debian distro.

As for the model number, it is an old nr3610 rugged laptop.

BitJam · posted: 2013-07-18 02:34

I've almost got the xserver-xfbdev package working here. I just did an"apt-get install xserver-xfbdev" I'm using antiX-base and booting into runlevel 3 (with a"3" as boot parameter) which doesn't start X, it just gets me to the command line.

I copied the init script from
========= SCRAPER REMOVED AN EMBEDDED LINK HERE ===========
url was:"http://repository.timesys.com/buildsources/x/xorg-server/xorg-server-1.11.2/Xfbdev.initscript"
linktext was:"here"
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. I put it in /etc/init.d/xfbdev and made that file executable:

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# chmod a+x /etc/init.d/xfbdev

Then I ran it with the"start" parameter:

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# /etc/init.d/xfbdev start

It started up and I got a desktop with a background image and toolbar at the bottom. Unfortunately, there were also errors, as reported in /tmp/xfbdev.log. The nasty ones were:

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Couldn't find pointer driver mouse
Couldn't find keyboard driver keyboard
xint: Xfree86_VT property unexpectedly has 0 items instead of 1

So I had no mouse or keyboard. I don't know if these problems are show stoppers or if they could be fixed by changing how Xfbdev is called.

Here is an article about
========= SCRAPER REMOVED AN EMBEDDED LINK HERE ===========
url was:"http://kemovitra.blogspot.com/2012/10/linux-building-xorg-kdrive-server.html"
linktext was:"building Xfbdev on Debian"
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. You don't need to do this if you use the xserver-xfbdev package but that page gives a different way to start Xfbdev.

You can find out which /dev/input/event? goes to which hardware device with either of these commands:

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$ ls -l /dev/input/by-path
$ cat /proc/bus/input/devices

I edited /etc/init.d/xfbdev to reflect what I found but still no joy. Maybe evdev changed and Xfbdev can't find it now. Maybe you would have better luck building it as per the instructions linked to above.

SamK · posted: 2013-07-18 05:18

Brainwright wrote:...trying to use the latest AntiX on an ancient HP Laptop, and I was drawn to this distro because it mentioned the ability to use xvesa instead of xorg...
[...]
Only xvesa has worked in my experience, and if I can't use that, is there an option for an ultra-super-safe mode that isn't clearly visible from the default installer?

Xorg does have an xvesa driver available (xserver-xorg-video-vesa). It is referred to here
build-your-own-t4438.html

I recently used an xvesa driver for an nvidia video card on an ancient machine that was experiencing difficulties with the standard video drivers supplied in antiX-13. Have a look at this thread
post29761.html?hilit=instructive#p29761

The way I installed it was

Boot the system to the first boot menu
Down arrow to select the menu option that mentions (init-3) to boot in command line mode
Log in as root, (or the user account and switch to the root account)
Run the command smxi (a system management tool that works at the command line)
Follow the on screen menus to check for (and install) an alternative video driver

An alternative distro to try is TinyCore Linux

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The TC live ISO ships with only Xvesa. Over the years and across a wide range of hardware, booting the live ISO has produced a working GUI 100% of the time"straight-from-the-box". It is well suited to use on ancient systems.

The initial installation doesn't provide the same range of apps as antiX. These have to be installed individually. They are available via the app installer which TC provides. Think of TC as an empty toolbox into which you place your personal selection of tools.

The latest stable release is v4.7. This does not use Debian based apps. A version named dCore is under development. dCore will use apps from the Debian stable repository. It is still in the initial stages of development so is not ready for general use at present.

A distro aimed specifically at old kit is Connochaetos.

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It is GUI desktop based and may be worth a try (although it does mention Xorg).

BitJam · posted: 2013-07-18 16:02

I believe this recent
========= SCRAPER REMOVED AN EMBEDDED LINK HERE ===========
url was:"http://patchwork.freedesktop.org/patch/13399/"
linktext was:"Debian bug report"
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explains the problem I had with getting mouse and keyboard to work with Debian's Xfbdev X server.

I tried the Xfbdev server compiled
========= SCRAPER REMOVED AN EMBEDDED LINK HERE ===========
url was:"http://kemovitra.blogspot.com/2012/10/linux-building-xorg-kdrive-server.html"
linktext was:"here"
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but it is very old and segfaults.

I have not seen a newer version of the xserver-xfbdev package. Until a newer version is available, I think the only way forward with Xfbdev is to compile it ourselves.

Along with SamK's suggestions, you could also try the fbdev driver for Xorg. For that to work and for Xfbdev to work you need to enable the framebuffer by providing a vga= boot parameter. Two common values are:

vga=792 for 1024x768

vga=795 for 1280x1024

rokytnji · posted: 2013-07-18 16:51

Brainwright wrote:Puppy works with the laptop, but this experiment has been specifically to move on to something less squirrely and better supported. So I looked for a Debian distro.

As for the model number, it is an old nr3610 rugged laptop.

Since I am one of the only ones on this forum with a exotic rugged military laptop. A Amrel RT 786EX. Here is my suggestion for starters since I can run AntiX on mine. I still have a core 8.5 install on one hard drive caddy.

Since you say Puppy Boots OK. Boot it up. Open a Terminal in Puppy.

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cd /usr/local/bin && wget -Nc smxi.org/inxi && chmod +x inxi

a old example of my Amrel readout while in Puppy

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linktext was:"http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 405#595163"
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After installing inxi. Post output as well as look in Puppies info center/Hardware checker and get the info it supplies on your graphics card and post it here.

My Toughbook readout on AntiX inxi readout$ inxi -F -z

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System:    Host: Biker Kernel: 3.7.8-antix.1-486-smp i686 (32 bit)
           Desktop: LXDE (Openbox 3.5.0) Distro: antiX-core--a1 20 June 2010
Machine:   System: Intel product: Montara Family of Chipsets
           Mobo: Phoenix model: RT786EX version: 41118 Bios: Phoenix version: MGM-ALL1.86C.1009.D.0604271130 date: 04/27/06
CPU:       Single core Intel Pentium M (-UP-) cache: 2048 KB flags: (sse sse2) clocked at 600.00 MHz
Graphics:  Card: Intel 82852/855GM Integrated Graphics Device X.Org: 1.12.3 driver: intel Resolution: 1024x768@60.0hz
           GLX Renderer: Mesa DRI Intel 852GM/855GM x86/MMX/SSE2 GLX Version: 1.3 Mesa 8.0.4
Audio:     Card: Intel 82801DB/DBL/DBM (ICH4/ICH4-L/ICH4-M) AC'97 Audio Controller driver: snd_intel8x0
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture ver: k3.7.8-antix.1-486-smp
Network:   Card-1: Atheros AR5212/AR5213 Wireless Network Adapter driver: ath5k
           IF: wlan0 state: up mac: <filter>
           Card-2: Realtek RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+ driver: 8139too

Thread
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Alanarchy · posted: 2013-08-21 09:03

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Hey there! I'm an inexperienced user trying to use the latest AntiX on an ancient HP Laptop, and I was drawn to this distro because it mentioned the ability to use xvesa instead of xorg in some apparently out-of-date FAQ.

I noticed in one of the Linux mags that Wayland is under development to replace Xorg.

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linktext was:"http://wayland.freedesktop.org/"
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But then again, this is probably something for advanced users only but I just thought I'd mention it as a point of interest.