Packages vs. "meta" ?

Ninho · posted: 2016-11-04 09:53

Hi gurus ! I could use some explaining re."packages" versus"meta-packages". What are the latter and do I need them ? How do they relate to the former ?

dolphin_oracle · posted: 2016-11-04 12:08

Ninho wrote:Hi gurus ! I could use some explaining re."packages" versus"meta-packages". What are the latter and do I need them ? How do they relate to the former ?

meta-packages are usually"dummy" packages that bring in a set of packages. they can usually be uninstalled without affecting the other packages that they pull in.

Ninho · posted: 2016-11-04 14:07

Therefore, IIUC, bringing down a certain meta-package will not magically install the packages contained in it, we would still need to choose and install some or all of the individual packages - right ?

dolphin_oracle · posted: 2016-11-04 15:03

Ninho wrote:Therefore, IIUC, bringing down a certain meta-package will not magically install the packages contained in it, we would still need to choose and install some or all of the individual packages - right ?

actually, meta-packages will bring down everything named as a depend of the meta-package, as well as the depend of the individual packages.

its just a grouping mechansim. A good example is"libreoffice", which brings down all the libreoffice suite packages.

Ninho · posted: 2016-11-10 16:03

After all these good replies I'm afraid it is still unclear in my head
what the relation is (if any) between the"install metapackages" and
"synaptic packets manager" - both under the"system tools" menu.
Are they (in)dependent/redundant or what ?

Related, there seem to be applications installed by default on antiX
that are not visible in the (synaptic) package manager - for instance,
Clawsmail. This one is only mentionned in"metapackage installer", there is
a blue (i) icon along it, I presume, means it is seen as"installed".
(Note : intuitively, that icon signifies"information", rather than installed)

The"metapackage installer" has a button labelled"install",
but none to"uninstall" a thing, or is it shared ?
What is the checkbox"use option yes for apt get install" do ?

All very confusing to me, I'm afraid __{{emoticon}}__

In practice, then, how would I remove Clawsmail from the system properly,
before (or after) I installed a replacement, say, Thunderbird ?

anticapitalista · posted: 2016-11-10 16:51

Use synaptic to uninstall packages.
Use synaptic to install packages that are not in meta-packageinstaller,
Synaptic is just a front-end gui for apt.
Use meta-package-installer to install easily packages and sets of packages. Its purpose is to enable user to easily install 'known' packages without having to use search in synaptic. It also installs some apps not in the default apt repos eg skype that you will not find in synaptic

Ninho · posted: 2016-11-10 17:50

Hmmm... just attempted to install"thunderbird" from Metapackages. I unchecked"use option yes for apt-get install" (???whatever???) and then clicked : install. It opened a terminal and apparently downloaded the requested... or did it ? at the end it asked me to"type the code or close the window" (wtf???) I closed. Where on hell am I supposed to find thunderbird now and finalize installation ?

skidoo · posted: 2016-11-10 19:51

I don't use thunderbird & aside from betatesting stints, idunno whether I've ever used"metapackage installer".
Just now, when I visited google search and typed
"debian install thunderbird"
the number one search result (a mozilla support page) seems to answer"the hell" question.

anticapitalista · posted: 2016-11-10 19:59

Just press Enter key

skidoo · posted: 2016-11-10 20:30

antix docs for metapackage installer are rather sparse.
In the MX-Linux user guide I found a linky to dolphin_oracle video

^---- embedded YouTube-hosted video: https://www.youtube.com/cFGm6U0j_oQ

The"metapackage installer" has a button labelled"install", but none to"uninstall" a thing, or is it shared ?

AFAICT, metapackage does not perform UNinstall

What is the checkbox"use option yes for apt get install" do ?

good question, probably should have been anticipated (new users are likely to wonder about that)

The install wrappers for SOME packages utilize a mechanism called"debconf" to interactively present installation-related questions and input responses during the installation. Ticking the --yes option essentially instructs"don't bother me with the details, skip the question-asking and just choose whatever defaults the author / packager thunk would be best"

Related, there seem to be applications installed by default on antiX
that are not visible in the (synaptic) package manager - for instance,
Clawsmail.

Maybe the hyphenated packagename (claws-mail) tripped up your search.
try again: just search for"claws"

In practice, then, how would I remove Clawsmail from the system properly,
before (or after) I installed a replacement, say, Thunderbird ?

First you'll need to gather up some tools:
a really big crowbar, a can of WD-40 or KY jelly, a large neobdynium magnet...

If you're curious and want to peek behind the curtain
"what will metapackage installer do if I choose to install suchandsuch"
you can browse its"specs" files here: /usr/share/install-meta
sudo leafpad /usr/share/install-meta/Email-Thunderbird.bm

skidoo · posted: 2016-11-10 20:45

It opened a terminal and apparently downloaded the requested... or did it ?
at the end it asked me to"type the code or close the window"

To understand the question, I had to dunnit with mine own eyes

In this case (a metainstaller entry labeled"Arista") a bug might exist ("expected a colon")

at the tail of the output I see the question you referred to
and reckon"enter your code" is asking for a locale string.
I tried"en", then"en_US", but neither of those were accepted so I bailed via Alt+F4

Code: Select all

search all installed packages who need locale packages, please wait ...
grep-dctrl: /var/lib/apt/lists/antix.daveserver.info_jessie_dists_jessie_main_binary-amd64_Packages:2870: expected a colon.

==================================
enter your code or close the window <ALT> + <F4>
#

anticapitalista · posted: 2016-11-10 20:52

close the window is what users should do.

skidoo · posted: 2016-11-10 21:12

Exit and relaunch, I notice that it provides no indication that"Arista" is now installed.
Tick the box and re-run it. Nope, doesn't uninstall ~~ attempts to install and reports arista is installed and up-to-date.

The _i_ icons you mentioned, did you click any of 'em?
I did, and noted that they do in fact provide"info". Not exactly noob-friendly info/details, but a peek at the parsed contents of the associated .bm file and (maybe?) ability to customize the pre- and post- install instructions.

close the window is what users should do.

like I mentioned, I've seldom used metapackage installer.
The question, asking for a locale code, I'm inclined to believe that's the result of a bug ~~ as in, user isn't supposed to see that. The mechanism is probably supposed to detect user's locale and load Language-whatever-whatever.bm , from which the specific"code" would be parsed.

==================

So now Ninho, after testing... to find out what was recently installed so's I can uninstall it:
sudo geany /var/log/dpkg.log

Ninho · posted: 2016-11-10 21:54

Quite a few rough edges to entertain the dummy ;=)

skidoo wrote: So now Ninho, after testing... to find out what was recently installed
sudo geany /var/log/dpkg.log

Ah, much obliged ! ... [edited] OK I have located the apps executable under /opt/thunderbird/ and a link : /usr/bin/thunderbird that indeed has launched TB __{{emoticon}}__

What is the correct procedure to integrate it best in Rox-icewm, please ?
[Edited] Never mind, I think it's all correct now, including an icon and link in the Rox menu !)

I've also disinstalled claws-mail successfully. Case closed and lesson (hopefully) learnt.