topic title: Newbie with Graphic Card problems (I think!!!)
Posts: 7
Ziggy
Joined: 11 Dec 2013
#1
Hi

I'm trying to get Linux running on my PC (hoping to install it on my hard drive come the demise of Windows XP) and having tried all the usual distros Ubuntu, Mint, Knoppix etc I saw that AntiX was designed for running on older machines.

My PC is a lenovo Thinkcentre M55, 3 Gig Ram, Dual Core, running XP Pro, dual screen, Radeon X1550 graphics card.

I'm a complete newbie to Linux but not to computers per se. I loaded the live CD, tapped the space bar and entered the menu. Having read that Linux doesn't play too happily with ATI/Radeon I chose the Vesa option - it loaded as far as 'waiting for /dev to be fully populated ...' and then went to a black screen with what looked like garble/mishapen text lines along the bottom. Tried again - this time using the 'safe' graphics option and the exact same thing happened. (This had happened with all other distros too)

Many many Googles later I was definitely starting to think my video/graphics card was playing some part in this non-event. I tried starting the live CD again, space-barred into memu and added 'radeon.modeset=0' and ...... it booted past the 'populating /dev' line, filled two pages with successful boot messages - I was getting excited by this time and then ..... video feed to the monitors was cut - no signal being recieved.

I'm thinking that I am so close at this stage, that some of you AntiX wizards can give me a hand.

Pleased to meet you all

Ziggy
Posts: 850
fatmac
Joined: 26 Jul 2012
#2
Are you using a pendrive (?) - try editing the grub boot menu by adding rootdelay=10 to the kernel line.
(It may not be getting enough time to find & mount the /root partition.)

Edit: Sorry you were using a CD, but it may still help. Did you write it at a slow write speed.
Posts: 7
Ziggy
Joined: 11 Dec 2013
#3
Thanks fatmac.

It is a CD, and was burned slowly. I just can't understand why adding the line 'radeon.modeset=0' nearly loaded whilst just using vesa, safe or ordinary caused it to hang on 'waiting to populate /dev' .
Posts: 850
fatmac
Joined: 26 Jul 2012
#4
It is a problem with some graphics cards that you need to use 'nomodeset' on the kernel line in grub, no idea why, but it does seem to help on some machines.
Posts: 7
Ziggy
Joined: 11 Dec 2013
#5
Thanks fatmac,

but nomodeset on the kernel line doesn't work at all for me with any distro and not with AntiX.
Posts: 4,164
rokytnji
Joined: 20 Feb 2009
#6
Hmm. I am going to be going back and forth from the house to the shop for this post so some editing will be done here.
My IBM IBM M57 Tower/Desktop AntiX 13.Full install

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harry@biker:~
$ inxi -Fxz
System:    Host: biker Kernel: 3.12.1-antix.1-amd64-smp x86_64 (64 bit, gcc: 4.8.2) 
           Desktop: IceWM 1.3.7 Distro: antiX-13-rc1_x64-full Luddite 3 May 2013
Machine:   System: LENOVO product: 6075BHU version: ThinkCentre M57
           Mobo: LENOVO model: LENOVO Bios: LENOVO version: 2RKT41AUS date: 03/20/2008
CPU:       Dual core Intel Pentium Dual CPU E2160 (-MCP-) cache: 1024 KB flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 ssse3) bmips: 7182.46 
           Clock Speeds: 1: 1800.00 MHz 2: 1200.00 MHz
Graphics:  Card: Intel 82Q35 Express Integrated Graphics Controller bus-ID: 00:02.0 
           X.Org: 1.14.3 drivers: intel (unloaded: fbdev,vesa) Resolution: 1600x900@60.0hz 
           GLX Renderer: Mesa DRI Intel Q35 GLX Version: 2.1 Mesa 9.2.2 Direct Rendering: Yes
Audio:     Card: Intel 82801I (ICH9 Family) HD Audio Controller driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:1b.0 
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture ver: k3.12.1-antix.1-amd64-smp
Network:   Card-1: Ralink RT2561/RT61 802.11g PCI driver: rt61pci ver: 2.3.0 bus-ID: 11:0c.0
           IF: wlan0 state: up mac: <filter>
           Card-2: Intel 82566DM-2 Gigabit Network Connection driver: e1000e ver: 2.3.2-k port: 1820 bus-ID: 00:19.0
           IF: eth0 state: down mac: <filter>
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 80.0GB (25.1% used) 1: id: /dev/sda model: ST380815AS size: 80.0GB 
Partition: ID: / size: 41G used: 19G (49%) fs: ext4 ID: swap-1 size: 3.27GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap 
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 34.0C mobo: N/A 
           Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A 
Info:      Processes: 110 Uptime: 1 min Memory: 143.9/1980.8MB Runlevel: 5 Gcc sys: 4.8.2 
           Client: Shell (bash 4.2.45) inxi: 1.9.17
Yeah like I thought. I have a intel chip on this motherboard for graphics. Now to go out to the shop, (frigging cold outsie), and boot up the shop Desktop.


Edit: Shop Desktop. Emachine 3507.

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harry@biker:~$ inxi -Fxz
System:    Host: biker Kernel: 3.11-2-486 i686 (32 bit, gcc: 4.8.1) 
           Desktop: Fluxbox 1.3.5 Distro: antiX-M11-base- Jayaben Desai 25 April 2011
Machine:   System: GATEWAY product: W3507 version: 500
           Mobo: Intel model: D102GGC2 version: AAD70214-201
           Bios: Intel version: GC11020M.15A.2010.2006.0817.0956 date: 08/17/2006
CPU:       Single core Intel Celeron D CPU (-UP-) cache: 512 KB flags: (lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3) bmips: 6400.09 clocked at 3200.049 MHz 
Graphics:  Card: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] RC410 [Radeon Xpress 200/1100] bus-ID: 01:05.0 
           X.Org: 1.14.3 driver: radeon Resolution: 1024x768@85.0hz 
           GLX Renderer: N/A GLX Version: N/A Direct Rendering: N/A
Audio:     Card: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] IXP SB4x0 High Definition Audio Controller 
           driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:14.2 
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture ver: k3.11-2-486
Network:   Card-1: Realtek RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+ driver: 8139too ver: 0.9.28 port: 1000 bus-ID: 02:02.0
           IF: eth0 state: down mac: <filter>
           Card-2: Realtek RTL8187B Wireless 802.11g 54Mbps Network Adapter driver: rtl8187 usb-ID: 002-002
           IF: wlan0 state: up mac: <filter>
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 120.0GB (15.9% used) 1: id: /dev/sda model: ST3120213A size: 120.0GB 
Partition: ID: / size: 108G used: 18G (18%) fs: ext3 ID: swap-1 size: 2.17GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap 
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 42.0C mobo: 42.6C 
           Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: 2241 fan-2: 1061 fan-4: 0 
Info:      Processes: 96 Uptime: 26 min Memory: 270.3/880.0MB Runlevel: 5 Gcc sys: 4.8.2 
           Client: Shell (bash 4.2.45) inxi: 1.9.17 
harry@biker:~$
Yeah, it has the ati chip. I have not installed mesa-utils yet though since the kernel change. I gotta go for now.
Posts: 7
Ziggy
Joined: 11 Dec 2013
#7
Thanks Rokytnji- but I installed the Geforce Powercolor card as the built in graphics were not good for twin screens - it did have the nvidia built in graphics (plus I don't really know what you were telling me) - have you a fix?
Posts: 2,238
dolphin_oracle
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
#8
did the signal go out or did the monitor just go blank. On my HP, when the video driver loads and the mode changes, the brightness on the screen drops to zero. for a long time I thought my machine wasn't booting. turns out it was, I just couldn't see it. I just use the brightness keys to bring it up. There is a"hp laptop" setting on the live options now that sets the brightness to max during boot.

maybe your problem, maybe not. good luck.
Posts: 4,164
rokytnji
Joined: 20 Feb 2009
#9
Ziggy wrote:Thanks Rokytnji- but I installed the Geforce Powercolor card as the built in graphics were not good for twin screens - it did have the nvidia built in graphics (plus I don't really know what you were telling me) - have you a fix?
Are you running installed? Or Live? As far as a fix. I was going by your
Radeon X1550 graphics card.
which I did not know had nvidia chips in a Radeon card. A inxi -F report like I posted (in code tags) on my last post will clear up a lot of confusion in this thread as we really don't know what you are running yet. Not enough info yet like I posted to go by. Just poke and hope and guessing till we know what you have with a inxi report.
Posts: 1,308
BitJam
Joined: 31 Aug 2009
#10
Ziggy wrote: I just can't understand why adding the line 'radeon.modeset=0' nearly loaded whilst just using vesa, safe or ordinary caused it to hang on 'waiting to populate /dev' .
You can Google for"kernel mode set" (KMS) to get more information.

The gist of it is that the same driver is used for the consoles and for X-windows. This usually takes over the console display when"waiting for /dev to be fully populated ..." is displayed. The default in the consoles is to use the maximum resolution possible and this causes breakage on many older systems. They say you can set the resolution with a"video=..." boot parameter but this has never worked for me. Other than that, you have to disable it, either by removing/disabling KMS enabled drivers or with one of the boot parameters that disable KMS. It seems that the radeon driver is ignoring the"nomodeset" boot option, which is unfortunate.

When KMS works, people are usually very happy with it because changing resolution or changing from a virtual console to X happens instantly. When KMS fails to work, people are extremely unhappy with it because it makes the machine unusable.

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There was a little girl,
            Who had a little curl,
Right in the middle of her forehead.
            When she was good,
            She was very good indeed,
But when she was bad she was horrid.
BTW: while it was once true that Linux Nvidia support was much better than Linux Radeon support, that has not been true for a while. It is now the opposite IMO. Radeon is much easier to use on Linux while Nvidia continues to be a pain in the neck, although ignoring"nomodeset" seems a little nasty.

I've never agreed with the decision to enable KMS by default thus breaking many older systems. It has been and continues to be a huge pain.
Posts: 7
Ziggy
Joined: 11 Dec 2013
#11
Dolphin-Oracle - the signal stopped - the monitors both reported 'no signal being recieved'

BitJam thanks very much for the info re. the KMS

Are there any boot parameters I can use to fully boot into the Live CD.

I'm really frustrated having tried Knoppix, Debian, Ubuntu, Mint and a few others. To be honest - the AntiX is the one that has come closet to booting albeit by using the 'radeon.modeset=0' command.

Would this CD install and work properly - e.g. dual-boot and run properly?
Posts: 1,028
SamK
Joined: 21 Aug 2011
#12
About a couple of months ago I wanted to investigate an ATI/Radeon matter before comitting to a hard disk install of antiX-13.2-Full-Stable. My goal was to test different video drivers. Perhaps some parts of my journey might help you.

The original attempt to create a test environment tried to create an antiX-Live with persistence set up on a USB stick as outlined in the following post:
idea-for-pre-installation-test-of-video-driver-t4658.html
Unfortunately this was not suitable as can be seen from the last post i.e. the driver was not used in this set up.

The second attempt installed antiX to the same USB stick, this time using the installation procedure that is normally used to install to hard disk. This is not the recommended way to set up antiX but is OK for short term testing.

Once installed a second hurdle was discovered. The kernel shipped with the antiX-13.2-Full-Stable ISO had a bug which prevented the building of the new video driver. To address this follow the upgrade advice from anticapitalista in this topic:
new-bug-fix-kernels-available-t4692.html
Note: I never went back to investigate whether this was the cause of the failure in the original attempt.

Booting the USB stick via the new kernel allowed the running of two command line tools, smxi and sgfxi. smxi holds your hand through a step-by-step update and upgrade procedure, sgfxi dives straight into installing a new video driver.

The outcome was the new driver tested OK and the install to hard disk was conducted.

My circumstances were slightly different from yours as throughout I was able to boot into a partially working display. and switch to the command line when wanted. It might be possible for you to do everything from the command line. I cannot tell whether you have already tried it.

The antiX installer CD has an option to conduct a command line installation. If antiX can be installed to a USB stick in CLI mode it is still likely to fail to boot in GUI mode. If the bootloader screen is displayed there will be an option ending in init-3. Selecting this will boot to the command line.

Summary
1. Try to boot the CD to install in command line mode
2. Create a temporary installation on a USB stick
3. Install the correct kernel + updates
4. Boot using the new kernel
5. In cli mode, as root, run either smxi or sgfxi to install a different video driver (if available)
6. Hope.
Posts: 7
Ziggy
Joined: 11 Dec 2013
#13
Update

Thanks Samk - I don't get to a partially working screen (see below), plus I don't see an option in the BIOS to boot from a USB device. I'm not sure if I can follow your procedure either - I know practically nothing about nothing (the practically is probably an overstatement!)

After Googling some more I booted into the Live CD, and typed radeon.noaccel=1 at the end of the command line and pressed enter
It said this code was ignored or had been misspelt - so I had no great hopes
But it booted past the 'populating /dev' and then completed booting and showed a black screen with streaks of warped graphics/text across the top, then it continued on and booted to a white screen with 3 little black dots on it.
This was the case when I booted using the radeon.noaccel=1 and vesa mode (this puts xdrive=vesa into the command line)- it got to the white screen with the black dots
Yet with the radeon.noaccel=1 and safe mode (which just sticks a nomodeset into the command line) it would get past the black screen with the coloured warped text/graphics

So, is there anything I can do to get this working on my pc, or will I just resign myself to knowing I can't have Linux on it?
Posts: 1,028
SamK
Joined: 21 Aug 2011
#14
Ziggy wrote:...I don't get to a partially working screen (see below)...
Have you tried the booting using the Command Line Install option in the antiX installation CD? Does it give you a working command line display? If it doesn't then nothing I mentioned will apply.
Posts: 1,308
BitJam
Joined: 31 Aug 2009
#15
There is clearly a problem with the graphics driver. If you are willing to start out with no GUI then add"3" as a boot parameter. This will prevent X-windows from starting and you should have 7 virtual consoles available. You can switch between them with Alt-<Left-Arrow> and Alt-<Right-Arrow>. If you use the"3" boot parameter and log in as root then you can start X-windows with the command:

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/ etc/init.d/slim start
After the screen goes blank, you might be able to get back to the first virtual console with Ctrl-Alt-<F1>.

I also suggest you use a vga boot parameter to increase the resolution of the text consoles:

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vga=795  gives  1280x1024
vga=792  gives  1024x768
You can also manually set the X-windows resolution with boot parameters:

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xres=1280x1024
xres=1024x768
You might want to combine one of these with 'xdrvr=vesa".

BTW, I will try to make sure we add"radeon.modeset=0" to our safe modes in the boot loader in the next release.

BTW-2: The F12 key in the boot loader will show you the currently selected boot parameters.