Hello, I'd like to introduce myself, my name is Steve. This is a very impressive mixture of Mepis and Debian, especially so in the resource usage area. Anticap, you've done an excellent job here, the OS and all is really quite polished. I've used 7.5, 8M and 8.2M - have to say, hats off to you, good sir.

That being said, the only problems I seem to be having with it are these:
1. I'm not entirely sure what repositories to use. Lenny? Testing? I've tried several things, first being an apt-get upgrade. That worked fine, left my system running fine, however, left about 30 packages un-upgraded. Disabled the Mepis repos after that and did an apt-get dist-upgrade - NOT in X, mind you - and when I rebooted, my performance was absolutely horrible - about 16% usage by X just. sitting. there.

So, I knew it was FUBAR and reinstalled - went back to it, took everything out of the sources.list except the Mepis repos - replaced them all with (what I believe to be) Stable Lenny (I can post my sources.list later, if you want) - apt-get dist-upgrade again, and this time it was even worse, about 35% usage. BTW, for these examples, I'm using 8.2M Base - will try full tonite/tomorrow. The system was all but unusable for about every task. When it upgrades, it appears to replace all of X.Org. Is this bad? What is making this (and/or me) fail so hard?

AntiX runs great, I like it better than even conventional Debian - but about four or five times of changing the sources.list around, googling for how to properly update it, etc, etc - it's really irritating to keep failing it. I know this doesn't concern you, really, and that you people are here to help me AND others - and let me make this clear - I know this is a FREE distro. I know that the work done on it and such was not paid for, and that you (Anti) don't owe me anything, not a damned thing - in fact, we (the community) owe you. Just wanted to make it clear, I'm not trying to be whiny or self-important here.

The other thing is that my i865 chipset refuses to use DRI. The i915 module is loaded, however, I'm not entirely sure how to configure X.Org to use it - except with driconf - and when you try to install that from the repos (about any of them I've tried) it attempts to rip out the XServer...

I've been toying around with this for a while, and I'm lost - I really don't want to go back to Debian, as while I do love the package management system, the stability, the flexibility - I'm just not good enough with Linux yet to know everything I'm doing, and when I try, really try, I fuck things up in spectacular ways...I'll get a whole host of applications installed (that I actually use, I don't just go in and select everything in Synaptic) and have the system nicely customized and all, running VERY smoothly - and then it just goes to Hell in a handbasket - and like I said, I don't know what all I'm doing exactly. I can download and install packages, anyone can do that - but what about configuration? Setting up a Linux firewall (one that actually works - not a stab at Firehol/M8.2 btw, haven't tried that one yet), configuring graphics drivers, installing intrusion detection software, knowing that everything works (the RIGHT way), hardening the system far beyond its out-of-the-box configuration, ALL THE WAY AROUND - I *DESPERATELY* want to be able to do these things, to be a *nix guru, but I just apparently suck at it. I can move around and do most basic tasks, however, even in text mode - editing config files, manually installing packages, grinding my teeth for hours as I pull out hair trying to configure X.Org and DRI...but that's about it, really. The long and the short of it is, I wanted Debian not only for stability, but for the fact that when you install Debian base, you need to do a little work to get everything up and running - media players, web browser, kismet, etc - but not a whole SHITLOAD (like Gentoo, Arch), you know? (EDIT: I don't just want out of the box easiness...but I don't want, say, Gentoo either, where it can literally take days to install the whole. damn. thing. from SCRATCH...) And then the things that *are* outside of my scope just lead me in circles. I've done so much reading, so much writing, that it's just pathetic that I don't have a job managing a server room or something - and yet I couldn't even come anywhere remotely close to the vicinity of that job description. Perhaps AntiX could help me with that, I don't know. Come to think of it, I don't quite see how, because things ARE made easier on here - but right now, I don't know. Should I just bite the bullet and go back with Debian, try to work the sources out in AntiX and see how far I get with it after updating everything, or should I just hurl my computer out the window?

At any rate, I do appreciate your time in reading my post, if you did, and any suggestions/comments you could throw my way - I'm sorry for the disjointed rambling and ranting, but it's 4am here and I'm tired, tired physically and of Linux at the moment. My Windows system got Trojaned rather badly, even infected the page file - and so I just said fuck it, I'm going to install Debian, run Windows through QEmulator again if I have to...but again, I get everything up and running, and then I just don't know if I have everything patched up, if I'm using programs with glaring security holes, if my services are leaving me open, etc...and I've RTFM'd this stuff several several times over. It almost seems like something I just shouldn't be able to understand - I've been trying to learn C / C++ for a while now too, and it's just a no-go, even if I spend like three weeks in larval stage, never coming out except for coffee and bathroom breaks...

Btw - Windows Admin here. Maybe that explains a little bit...been playing around with Debian (first and foremost) and other various *nixen since about 2003, but as you can see, not to much avail...

Summary: Can't get DRI working on my i865g. Modprobe loads the module. A basic Xorg.conf is created, however, it doesn't seem aware of the device, only that it's Intel - not that it's a specific chipset or anything like that. Attempt to install driconf causes Linux to try to eat the X server, because packages need upgraded...which leads to...
Upgrades. Can't do them, apparently - not in big amounts, or something. As I said, did the apt-get upgrade, that upgraded quite a few files, left like 30 alone - mostly X.Org stuff, I think. Then I still couldn't get DRI working, and some other program that I tried to install, due to dependency issues, wouldn't go either - so I said to Hell with it, upgraded all the packages with dist-upgrade - with Mepis repos enabled, default repos enabled - cut system performance to nil, reinstalled AntiX, tried it with straight Debian Lenny repos, broke the system even worse, tried a mix of Mepis and Debian, about the only way it's stable and fast (for me) after a dist-upgrade is...well, don't do one. How do I update this thing to get it to a stable, recent version? Is it REALLY as much of a security risk as it is on M$ systems to leave old packages/patches/etc?

This whole business is a damned shame - I really wish I could be like most lusers and not CARE what goes on behind the WM, system configuration, security, etc...but being a paranoid security-oriented Windows admin has not only given me that lovely little facet of my personality, but all the Linux stuff has opened my eyes to how terribly insecure and inflexible Windows truly is - and I just want a stable, secure, speedy system, that's all, and it's frustrating as all Hell to get a stable, fast, enjoyable to use Debian gaming system up (which takes a while, I might add) just to hose it trying to get a good IDS on there or a good Firewall, or let alone, a damn dist-upgrade. It's quite terrible being in the middle ground - you see all the Wizards around you and you're just in awe, angry at yourself for being so damned stupid, and you see all the lusers around you, and thank God you're not one of them - but are you really so far off from one?

Summarized Summary: Exasperation.

Perhaps at the very least, if noone has any ideas on the DRI and the repos...one of you could suggest ways to get better, or how you got better with Linux, I don't know. Again, thanks, and I'm terribly sorry about all this mess, I guess I just needed to get it out. Besides, you FOSS folks are used to hearing your fair share of bitching, amirite? __{{emoticon}}__

Hello and welcome to antiX.

About the latest Xorg if you upgrade, there are/were problems with some intel chips that led to very poor performance.
See this thread at Debian:


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If you want ultra stability, I suggest you use the repos listed below This should stop xorg getting upgraded. You will get some upgraded packages, and from MEPIS an upgraded kernel. apt-get dist-upgrade -s should show what is happening (s =simulate)
If everthing is working smoothly on reboot, then install the apps you want.

When you first did apt-get upgrade and all was ok, but 30 or so apps didn't get upgraded, any ideas which ones?

hello Steve and welcome to antix!
i have an Intel Mobile GM965/GL960 Integrated Graphics Controller and if update to the latest xorg one of my cpu cores runs at 100% and antix moves very slowly and sometimes it freezes. i also tried all the tweaks in the sidux forum but none worked for me. my solutions were:
1. to use stable repos and go from there, as anti suggested. this is no go for me because i want to have the latest updates to my apps.
2. update xorg and then use vesa (i think you have to add vesa at boot, i don't remember what i used) i tried it and the problems were gone, but i had no 3d (no problem for me) but the real problem was that my movies were running in their resolution and not in full screen, again no go for me.
3. my last solution, the one that i use now and i'm happy with it. because i'm running testing and i get all my apps and have no problems was to put xorg on hold till debian solves all the problems with the intel drivers. this is how i did it:
on a fresh install on antix i entered this commands in the terminal as root: then i updated with no problems because xorg will not update. i don't know how to downgrade if the latest xorg is all ready installed maybe someone else will help you.

i hope this helps you decide what to do. one solution that i didn't posted is to change the video card __{{emoticon}}__ just joking. peace.

I would like to thank both Anticapitalista and Ice-M for the welcome, and the suggestions. I would also like to apologize for the long poor me post prior - I'll try to keep things a little more concise. Consider it a window into my madness, if you will.

Anyway. So it's a problem with the Intel drivers (Debian specific), hm? Any chance Mepis may have a module that works better? __{{emoticon}}__
I reinstalled M8.2B on my PC earlier this morning before getting on, and had found that commenting out all testing sources then doing an apt-get upgrade yielded 26 packages - apt-get dist-upgrade, on the other hand, yielded 27 - I went with the dist-upgrade, rebooted, and I'm solid. Haven't tried to install anything else yet except Streamtuner + XMMS (which worked fine), but everything works. My sources.list file looks like this (removed application repos i.e., wine, XMMS, etc):
# Mepis8
deb
========= SCRAPER REMOVED AN EMBEDDED LINK HERE ===========
url was:"ftp://ftp.mepis.com/mepis/"
linktext was:"ftp://ftp.mepis.com/mepis/"
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" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false mepis-8.0 main

# Debian
deb
========= SCRAPER REMOVED AN EMBEDDED LINK HERE ===========
url was:"http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/"
linktext was:"http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/"
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" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false stable main contrib non-free
#deb
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url was:"http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/"
linktext was:"http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/"
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" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false testing main contrib non-free
#deb
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url was:"http://security.debian.org/"
linktext was:"http://security.debian.org/"
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" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false testing/updates main contrib non-free
deb-src
========= SCRAPER REMOVED AN EMBEDDED LINK HERE ===========
url was:"http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/"
linktext was:"http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/"
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" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false stable main contrib non-free

There were more repos by default, obviously, but I commented out the other Mepis/Sid/sidux/etc stuff.

Now, when I left all sources that were enabled by default on, and apt-get upgraded, I want to say that it offered to upgrade almost every package but the XOrg related ones and some libraries. ~200 files. Apt-get dist-upgrade = ~400 files (?) - somewhere around 400 megs anyway and the other was about 200megs. Eh. Anyway. Can't say honestly for sure that I tried apt-get upgrade on the default sources, but I did the dist-upgrade, and everything went bad there.

Then, I tried just for kicks:

## Stable Lenny ####
###################

deb
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" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false lenny main
deb-src
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url was:"http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/"
linktext was:"http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/"
====================================
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false lenny main

deb
========= SCRAPER REMOVED AN EMBEDDED LINK HERE ===========
url was:"http://security.debian.org/"
linktext was:"http://security.debian.org/"
====================================
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false lenny/updates main contrib
deb-src
========= SCRAPER REMOVED AN EMBEDDED LINK HERE ===========
url was:"http://security.debian.org/"
linktext was:"http://security.debian.org/"
====================================
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false lenny/updates main contrib

deb
========= SCRAPER REMOVED AN EMBEDDED LINK HERE ===========
url was:"http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/"
linktext was:"http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/"
====================================
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false lenny non-free
deb
========= SCRAPER REMOVED AN EMBEDDED LINK HERE ===========
url was:"http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/"
linktext was:"http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/"
====================================
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false lenny contrib

This was my sources.list from my stable Lenny box - it ran pretty nicely with Debian, no DRI, but still, I figured it might work well on here. It turned out that this sources.list was a Very Bad Thing either way, apt-get upgrade AND apt-get dist-upgrade replaced like some ~400MBS worth of files and it just shit all over the place after that.

I guess, I don't know...the way I'm sitting right now"should be" a"stable" Linux box, right? Just not necessarily with the latest software and stuff...is there any difference at all between my current sources.list and this Lenny one up above? Stable IS Lenny, isn't it? But then, there's Lenny *testing*, and Lenny *stable*...I'm confused. I guess basically what I'm asking is this: is this (deb
========= SCRAPER REMOVED AN EMBEDDED LINK HERE ===========
url was:"http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/"
linktext was:"http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/"
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" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false lenny main) the same as this: (deb
========= SCRAPER REMOVED AN EMBEDDED LINK HERE ===========
url was:"http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/"
linktext was:"http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/"
====================================
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false stable main)? __{{emoticon}}__

Should I just like...try my Lenny Stable list (or a testing list if I want some newer stuff, maybe mixed with a little stable/lenny as AntiX seems to be anyway) - and hold back XOrg as suggested while allowing the rest of the dist-upgrade? Because I feel really bad about running an out of date distro, it's just not kosher, leaves you open to all sorts of vulnerabilities from skiddies and idiots and generally just package/dependency problems afaik...or should I just STFU and be happy with my currently Debian Stable sources.list and see what I can't do from there? I'm just kind of lost on that point, I guess. To put it another way, is my current sources.list going to provide more cons than say, the default sources.list if I just disable the XOrg from being updated?

I do know that this"graphics" chipset is pure garbage. About in the class of a Radeon 9000 (and that's being very nice)...but I'd like to be able to have SOME 3d functionality, not just slow OpenGL software rendering...I actually just lost my ATI 9600 AIW PRO that actually was pretty decent, fan went on it - I've run so many distros with full acceleration on that card that it's not funny, and frankly, having no DRI hurts my soul just a little. __{{emoticon}}__

Do I want another distro until I can get a better vid card or until Intel and Debian work out this little problem they've got? I mean, I love AntiX, and I'm not trying to sound like a dick here. I know it's either love it or leave it, you know? But like...damn it, no 3d really sucks. Can't even really play Nexuiz at more than 800X600/16bpp/all settings LOW without more choppiness than a barber with Parkinson's...and even then. It's pretty craptacular. I just want an opinion, I guess...does this really seem"fixable" for the time being? 'Cause I can't really afford a gfx card right now, and I want something more than 25 fps in Nexuiz and sluggish Iceweasel performance due to Youtube (or, in fact, any real video decoding and any real intensive flash) overloading the lame-ass onboard VPU on this thing.

One more thing..."Extreme Graphics 2"? Jesus Christ, just seeing that this horrible excuse for a graphics solution was in my computer - like actually READING the name - was a kick in the balls after seeing it perform...I highly suspect that Intel marketing executives love to fry ants with magnifying glasses, kick puppies, and basically piss all over anything that makes people happy. In fact, it just may be a job requirement, you never know.

Thanks again, very much...

Steve

(Update: Able to install driconfig, still using the sources.list I posted above {default with Mepis repos pruned, all Debian Stable} - installed libglmesa and python support, went fine - able to load driconfig, however, still no DRI, and no changes to my XOrg file either - but perhaps it's not supposed to do that. However, my glxgears performance jumped from approx 540fps to about 930. __{{emoticon}}__ At any rate, didn't know if this made any sort of difference, so I just figured I'd post it.)

ICE-M wrote:

Code: Select all

echo xserver-xorg hold|dpkg --set-selections

Code: Select all

echo xserver-xorg-core hold|dpkg --set-selections

Thanks for this tip because I was about to upgrade. __{{emoticon}}__
Can I just pin those 2 packages in synaptic? Is that the same as a hold?

In the meantime, I'll just use stable again. Thanks.