This is probably puny by international standards but for the US it is quite a step forward IMO.


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What a trip. __{{emoticon}}__


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Just one of the multitude of things that I hope occupy wall street addresses


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I'm a little surprised that these people aren't giving Michael Moore a bunch of crap. I mean this guy is using their cause to make himself even more money. Don't those people know Moore is a closet capitalist, part of the so called"1%" and that he doesn't practice anything he preaches.

I've yet to figure out what these people are trying to achieve. Like the ones are wall street. They're protesting the 14% of the"1%"

buttcoffee wrote:I've yet to figure out what these people are trying to achieve. Like the ones are wall street. They're protesting the 14% of the"1%"

If you really want to know, here are a couple of columns by Glenn Greenwald that may help you understand:


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All four branches of the US government have been bought and paid for by the wealthiest 1%. Working within the political system you only have a choice between a Democrat who was bought and paid for by the 1% or a Republican who was bought and paid for by the 1%. The shadow puppet play put on by the politicians during their so-called debt ceiling"debate" made this crystal clear. No real solutions to the actual economic problems we face were even discussed. It was only a choice between further screwing the American people or screwing the American people even further.

The rank and file of the Tea Party see the rampant corruption of the US government and propose we fix the problem by shrinking the government until it is small enough to drown in a bathtub. The people in the occupy movement realize the corruption is connected to the vast disparity of wealth in the US. The corruption increases the disparity which then further increases the corruption. Like the fable of the Frog and the Scorpion, we all will drown if the wealthiest 1% continue to sting the other 99% who are carrying them on their backs across the river. Yet the wealthy few continue to sting the majority even now when it is no longer in their own best interest.

Many (perhaps most) of the policy changes promoted by the Tea Party are pro-corporate and would only strengthen the current corporate oligarchy (a political system governed by a few people). Our only hope to return our country back to a path of sanity is to wrest control of the government out of the hands of the few and put it back into the hands of the many.

The problem isn't that some people are wealth and some are not. The problem is that the system is rigged so the wealthy get even wealthier and everyone else gets poorer regardless of anyone's actual contribution to society. The very real economic calamities we face were almost all brought on by a financial system that rewards people for destabilizing the economy. To a large extent the people working on Wall Street are being richly rewarded for doing the exact opposite of what they are being paid for.

For a more in depth analysis, I'd suggest these two books:


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by Yves Smith

and:


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by Glenn Greenwald.


Edit: Right after posting the above I read
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by Robert Reich:

Washington Pre-Occupied

[...] I spent part of yesterday in Oakland, California. The Occupier movement is still in its infancy in the United States, but it cannot be stopped. Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game – an economy that won’t respond, a democracy that won’t listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards.

Edit 2: Bill Moyers
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:

How Wall Street Occupied America

Why New York’s Zuccotti Park is filled with people is no mystery. Reporters keep scratching their heads and asking, “Why are you here?” But it’s clear they are occupying Wall Street because Wall Street has occupied the country. And that’s why in public places across the nation workaday Americans are standing up in solidarity.

HTH

Do you have anything that's from a more objective point of view? All those opinions are from bloggers or people are of the American left ideology. Glenn Greenwald seems intent on trying to get his readers to buy his book.

Is the fourth branch of the US government supposed to be the people? Who qualifies as the"1%"?

The tea party proposes shrinking the government involving government spending, while expanding the government on social issues.

Isn't the US government already in the hands of the many, rather than the few?

How would you feel if Dick Cheney said the exact same thing Bill Moyers said? They're both criminals and liars, no?

What they want, in their own words:
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Have you ever been to one of their shindigs? I went to the one in DC a few times and it's quite funny. A lot of them are extremely ignorant and just spew random nonsense.

Essentially, what I've gathered is they want more government while not realizing that is what has got the US in the mess we're in. They don't realize that the government has and applied more control over private companies through all its rules and regulations for them. If the private companies find ways around that or makes pay offs, it's because the government forced all the rules and regulations onto them, in the first place. If the private companies and"1%" truely had their way and controlled the government, I doubt they would place rules and regulations on themselves inhabiting their company.

So, one wants private companies out of government and then they want more regulations to these private companies. In turn, they want exactly what they're already whining about? One wants to be able to speak his mind" without losing his job. So, he wants the government to regulate private companies more? The last guy is the funniest, he wants a"true democracy for the 99% who don't have it anymore." The last I checked, the US was never a"true democracy" or even close. It should be common knowledge to the writers of that"commercial" that the US is a republic, which is nowhere close to a"true democracy." In fact, in the US, no one has the explicit right to vote acccording to the US constitution, which the writers of that"commercial" clearly have never read, and I doubt 99% of those"occupiers" have either. In a"true democracy" that would kind of be expected, no? I recall a time in our history when certain people couldn't vote and to this day, certain people still cannot vote.

So, in all, these people are really protesting for more of the same.

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Just as the mainstream media and both political parties aided and abetted the co-option of the Tea Party by the Republican Party, there is an attempt being made to do the same to us within the Democratic Party.

We the People, We the 99%, are not the pawns of either wing of the two-party oligarchy.

We emphatically reject the attempted leadership of any political party, organization or individual. If there are elected officials or organizations who endorse our movement, we welcome them.

However, they must do so knowing this: Your voice will be just as loud as any other voice. We are led by no one. You cannot co-opt We The People.

Respect Us.

Having been around this earth awhile. I remember the hippies and demonstrations from the late 60's and 70's.

When the dust settled. All those long hairs went on to become the yuppies that occupy is now demonstrating against. Too bad it looks like history may repeat itself, at least here in the states.

Already the 99% is dividing into factions where you have the college upper class in one camp and
the homeless and working class in another camp with the college folks acting like they set the planning,leadership,and agenda. Already a elitist mindset in certain camps is settling in as time goes on. The more it seems that things change, You always see a glimpse of
how some things remains the same (if you live long enough).


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Besides PBS, LinkTV, this is another news channel I watch (so what it is fake news, there is some
truth in humor). Only in America. __{{emoticon}}__

I lol'd at that video, roky. I was wondering where the minorities and less well off. I guess they were at work. __{{emoticon}}__

It seems the so called"99%" are practicing for their future in politics. You know, by speaking for others without bothering to consult them and dismissing ones with different opinions or views.

I like this video, because this seems like an somewhat accurate portrayal of the ones in DC. Though, there are quite a few that aren't as snotty as these people, from what I've.

Whether (most of) the activists are middle class or from well to do backgrounds is not an issue and I suspect it is untrue. The real isssue is that the Occupy! movement, however confused, represents a 'beacon' to the millions suffering under capitalism or in other countries under some form of dictatorship. That is why the movement has concentrated on the issue of democracy, or should I say, lack of it, and is looking for ways to be more democratic and change society to be more democratic.

The Occupy! movement, lets not forget, was influenced by the movement in Tahrir Square, Egypt that also was portrayed by Mubarak and his friends in the USA at the time as a movement of the Yuppie middle class and the working class and poor being uninterested. We all know what happenend with around a million occupying the square on Jan 25 and the result led to the fall of Mubarak.
Same in Spain. The movement started off as being against all politics (just as it was here in Greece with the aganaktismenoi) and for real democracy. It was overwhelmimngly young and often led by students. But, the workers did support the occupations and demonstrations. Here in Greece, the aganaktismenoi could mobilise a demonstration of well over 100,000 in Syndagma Square, Athens and connect with the General Strikes. In many ways the Occupy! movement in Greece has moved further than the one in the USA from occupying spaces such as squares/Wall Street to occupying workplaces and government offices. For example the Power workers union is presently occupying the offices where they process disconnections, supporting those who cannot pay the bill.

The issue is whether and how soon, the Occupy! movement can connect to the millions of poor/oppressed workers so strikes become the norm rather than the exception. The General Strike in Oakland is a great step towards that.

My take on this. For occupy wall street to be effective and somewhat successful.

Especially after watching what unfolded in Egypt. Here in America. Money rules.

Folks in the occupy movement must be willing to get arrested over the long haul. It takes money to pay cops over time. It takes money to book people and then jail and feed. Eventually New York and other big cities budgets will go dry. trying to keep wall street and the bankers and investors happy.

The quickest way to get cops on your side is to have their bosses say they are broke and can't give a pay check. Same for Govt. Workers. I'd laugh if I saw Bloomberg say he needs wall street to pay the cops and jailers pay checks or he is
cutting back on protection. He definitely won't raise taxes to pay for this. Same for any other big city here in the States.

Like I said. Money rules here in the States. Always. No violence needed. Hit the wallet. Watch the panic.

anti, Egypt was more or less a military coup. I don't recall the people of Egypt forcing Mubarak out of power. It was the Egyptian military that had the power to get Mubarak to step down, not the people, if i recall correctly. The Egyptian military was already sort of in power anyways. The military is in power in Egypt right now, not the people. The people seem quite upset about this, and rightfully so. So, all that really happened was it went from one regime to a newer military regime.

Occupy Oakland has been basically shutdown. These occupy movements in the US don't have enough supporters and don't have a clear cause or goal. Supposedly what they may want is in the commercial bitjam posted, they're essentially asking for more government. The occupy people are like the opposite of the tea party people, but the tea party people seemed somewhat more effective in getting their voice heard. They should go and seek some advice from the tea party on how to protest more effectively and get their voices heard.

So far, all I've seen the occupy people accomplish is bringing more awareness to just how corrupt US cops are. Cops beating white people on camera upsets people more than when cops killing black people on camera. It just does, for somewhat obvious reasons. Good site for the bad stuff US coppers do everyday, but what everyone ignores
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buttcoffee,

I have to disagree with you that Egypt was more or less a military coup. The fact that the military benefittied and took power should not make us ignore the role of the millions that took part in demonstrations, strikes, occupations, just as thousands did so over the weekend against the military. A military coup does not involve mobilising millions as a coup by its very nature is an affair of a select group (military, guerilla or whatever) and the role of the masses is to remain passive, or in some cases the masses are called as a show of strength, but never to take power themselves.

So why didn't the masses take power in Egypt (or anywhere else) is a political question. Different political organisations have differing strategies, tactics and goals that may reflect different class interests. (Just like the Occupy! movement). The sections of the old order that was/became anti-Mubarak (including the present US government) had their goal in simply replacing Mubarak for another military figure (Soulemein). So they wanted the masses to go home asap. That failed as the masses continued to occupy Tahrir Square and the workers went on all out strike, not only against Soulemein, but also for democracy everywhere, in the workplaces and they also raised economic demands. The anti-capitalist forces argued that the workers should take political power and economic power by occupying the workplaces and running them themselves. This frightened the military and the more conservative elements of the 'resistence' into promising elections in the future and forming an interim (military) government. However, as last weekend shows, the issue has not been settled. The masses won't go away.

As far as the Occupy! movement is concerned, well, such movements will always frighten the rulers and the response of the rulers will be force and fraud. Force = police brutality and fraud = co-opting the movement or sections of it into 'safe'/'official' channels - in this case it seems into the 'radical' wing of the Democratic Party. Just like they did with the civil rights movement and the Black Panthers. Again a political issue. The fact that the Tea Party gets good press tells us more about the Tea Party and its connections with the most conservative and inflential sections of US society re FOX that its ability to challenge the elite.

The USA has a very radical history (as well as a brutal conservative one). Whichever side comes out on top will send a message of either hope or despair across the world. Occupy! is the message of hope (however confused) whereas the rise of the far right in Europe (and from what I have heard in the USA as well) we get the message of hate and despair. So Hope not Hate.

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by Robert Reich

... the Supreme Court says money is speech and corporations are people.

... If there’s a single core message to the Occupier movement it’s that the increasing concentration of income and wealth at the top endangers our democracy. With money comes political power.

... The First Amendment is being stood on its head. Money speaks, and an unlimited amount of it can now be spent bribing and cajoling politicians. Yet peaceful assembly is viewed as a public nuisance and removed by force.