Posts: 347
Silent Observer
Joined: 08 Aug 2013
#46
I've got a USB device that connects to any IDE or SATA hard disk (with external power supply for the 3.5" and larger that draw too much current to run off USB power), as well as a USB memory card reader that can directly read/write the CF I'm using (with IDE adapter) in place of a hard disk. The problem with doing things that way is trying to get GRUB set up correctly when the drive, once reinstalled, will have a different drive identifier (i.e. root partition will be sdb7 during installation, but sda7 when running in the laptop). This is additionally complicated by the requirement that I run in Live mode to install antiX (inability to install from within the installed OS is another thing that baffles me about Linux -- it's not like someone needed to ensure I paid for every copy I install).

Longer term, I'll probably try to get far enough into the hardware in the laptop to remove the CD drive and replace it; I think it's a standard minimum-height drive with a cosmetic front panel to match the laptop case, and I could replace it with a modern (preferably black) DVD+-RW if I can find one with IDE connection. That would get me greatly enhanced capability, and still pretend to be a CD-ROM for booting (i.e. not cause trouble for the BIOS). I don't want to spend the money and time (CD drive is blocked in by the hard disk and floppy drive) until/unless I can be reasonably sure the rest of the hardware is going to last long enough to bother. I'm also thinking I may resume my search for a 32 GB platter hard disk or SSD on laptop IDE, on the assumption that they'll behave a little better if I have an unclean shutdown -- though that's made a good bit less likely now that I have a battery again to carry past power drops.
Posts: 850
fatmac
Joined: 26 Jul 2012
#47
Changing your startup config is easy enough, but you need to do it just after installing before rebooting.

When it says it is finished installing, cd into your new disk's / & alter your grub config to your other machines startup /dev (/dev/sda1), then change the / line in fstab to what it needs to be, then transfer it to your other machine & it should startup OK.

I've done it this way many times when installing from a live pendrive to another pendrive or sdhc card.

Edit:
With regard to replacing your cd drive, all of my old laptops drives were held in with just one screw located somewhere underneath, once that is removed, open the tray & pull it out.
They seem to have their own kind of socket attachment which is a straight push fit. The location of the tab for fixing may be in a different place on some, but you can remove it & just push fit another one into place. The facia piece just clips on & off.
Posts: 347
Silent Observer
Joined: 08 Aug 2013
#48
I'd prefer (compared to connecting the redneck SSD to another computer to install) to fix things so I don't have to depend on another computer to use this one; I'll have to dig under the floppy and hard disks to see if I can find the screw for this CD drive -- then try to find a correct form factor replacement in a more modern device type (CD-RW at a minimum; this machine is too old/slow to play DVD as media, though it might be handy to be able to run a Live distro that won't fit on a CD, if I find one that doesn't require more RAM than I can put in this machine). I noticed a while back there's a BIOS upgrade available for this machine, too; I may go ahead and flash that in and see if it includes the ability to boot from USB (unlikely to do any harm even if it doesn't).

Edit: I suppose I could go whole hog back to the 1990s, clean up the heads in the floppy drive and install Plop Boot Manager on a 3.5" diskette (I've got a couple of those still around, and I think you can still buy them).
Posts: 347
Silent Observer
Joined: 08 Aug 2013
#49
Hmmm.

After completing the reinstall and getting it updated (1100 packages!) and some of my customization restored, I find I have the same problems with sound I had before (though everything else seems to be working better; I think I did indeed have file damage caused by dozens of unclean shutdowns). I'm starting to wonder if there isn't a hardware problem with the USB ports on the laptop.

When I start up with the sound dongle plugged in, the light in the device lights as it should, but I see an alsa error scroll past about"no sound cards found", most of the time the volumeicon fails to load on start, and frequently I get a null output from aplay -L instead of the list of systems the USB sound device claims to emulate (though disconnecting and replugging the USB sound always restores the long list). I've tested the sound dongle on a known-working Window 7 machine, and it plays (further, I can enable the mic in playback in the mixer in antiX and hear my own breathing and voice, though I can't get anything else to play back on it from antiX) -- convincing me the USB sound hardware is good. I've also had some intermittency with USB storage devices, and while trying to test the USB in the Win98 already on the laptop, I got random-seeming switches between USB sound device (1), (2), and (3).

Is there any reasonably reliable way to test the USB hardware on my machine without spending money I currently don't have?
Posts: 850
fatmac
Joined: 26 Jul 2012
#50
Is there any reasonably reliable way to test the USB hardware on my machine without spending money I currently don't have?
The only thing I can think of is to check all the soldered connections to see if any are loose.
Posts: 347
Silent Observer
Joined: 08 Aug 2013
#51
fatmac wrote:
Is there any reasonably reliable way to test the USB hardware on my machine without spending money I currently don't have?
The only thing I can think of is to check all the soldered connections to see if any are loose.
That would require more disassembly than I'm confident attempting, and that in hope that those few components (the socket connections) aren't surface mounted like everything else I can see in this machine. Let me look under the machine and see if there even appears to be a way to access the motherboard...

...that's a maybe. The USB ports and RF out connector are sandwiched between the battery compartment and cooling air intake and I don't know for sure how to get the actual case open -- plus those items are obviously close to the video chipset (VGA out is on the nearest corner of the back). For whatever it's worth, I don't think the USB has ever been subjected to any mechanical abuse; prior to the past couple months, the only USB device ever connected to this computer was a webcam, and that only a few times (even in 2000-2002, this machine was a little marginal for webcam operation). It'll be next weekend before I have time to even attempt to get the case open, and I'm semi-committed to trying to finish getting the head off an Escort then.
Posts: 630
Eino
Joined: 12 Oct 2012
#52
With the usb hardware plugged in do this command.
This will list the usb hardware. This will also check the usb connectivity.

Code: Select all

# lsusb -v
Posts: 347
Silent Observer
Joined: 08 Aug 2013
#53
Wow, that's a lot of output...

Edit: BTW, on this startup I didn't get the alsa error, it just loaded right up and volumeicon loaded during start as it should, but trying to run gweled (as a sound test) resulted in volumeicon pushing cpu to 100% again (htop showed it was using 70% or so all by itself), and speakertest as launched from Control Centre stopped with"left front" on screen (as before all this fixing). Was there an update that included volumeicon or other sound-related packages around two weeks ago?

Code: Select all

$ lsusb -v

Bus 001 Device 004: ID 0d8c:013c C-Media Electronics, Inc. CM108 Audio Controller
Couldn't open device, some information will be missing
Device Descriptor:
  bLength                18
  bDescriptorType         1
  bcdUSB               1.10
  bDeviceClass            0 (Defined at Interface level)
  bDeviceSubClass         0 
  bDeviceProtocol         0 
  bMaxPacketSize0         8
  idVendor           0x0d8c C-Media Electronics, Inc.
  idProduct          0x013c CM108 Audio Controller
  bcdDevice            1.00
  iManufacturer           1 
  iProduct                2 
  iSerial                 0 
  bNumConfigurations      1
  Configuration Descriptor:
    bLength                 9
    bDescriptorType         2
    wTotalLength          253
    bNumInterfaces          4
    bConfigurationValue     1
    iConfiguration          0 
    bmAttributes         0x80
      (Bus Powered)
    MaxPower              100mA
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        0
      bAlternateSetting       0
      bNumEndpoints           0
      bInterfaceClass         1 Audio
      bInterfaceSubClass      1 Control Device
      bInterfaceProtocol      0 
      iInterface              0 
      AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                10
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      1 (HEADER)
        bcdADC               1.00
        wTotalLength          100
        bInCollection           2
        baInterfaceNr( 0)       1
        baInterfaceNr( 1)       2
      AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                12
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      2 (INPUT_TERMINAL)
        bTerminalID             1
        wTerminalType      0x0101 USB Streaming
        bAssocTerminal          0
        bNrChannels             2
        wChannelConfig     0x0003
          Left Front (L)
          Right Front (R)
        iChannelNames           0 
        iTerminal               0 
      AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                12
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      2 (INPUT_TERMINAL)
        bTerminalID             2
        wTerminalType      0x0201 Microphone
        bAssocTerminal          0
        bNrChannels             1
        wChannelConfig     0x0001
          Left Front (L)
        iChannelNames           0 
        iTerminal               0 
      AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                 9
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      3 (OUTPUT_TERMINAL)
        bTerminalID             6
        wTerminalType      0x0301 Speaker
        bAssocTerminal          0
        bSourceID               9
        iTerminal               0 
      AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                 9
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      3 (OUTPUT_TERMINAL)
        bTerminalID             7
        wTerminalType      0x0101 USB Streaming
        bAssocTerminal          0
        bSourceID               8
        iTerminal               0 
      AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      5 (SELECTOR_UNIT)
        bUnitID                 8
        bNrInPins               1
        baSource( 0)           10
        iSelector               0 
      AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                10
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      6 (FEATURE_UNIT)
        bUnitID                 9
        bSourceID              15
        bControlSize            1
        bmaControls( 0)      0x01
          Mute Control
        bmaControls( 1)      0x02
          Volume Control
        bmaControls( 2)      0x02
          Volume Control
        iFeature                0 
      AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                 9
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      6 (FEATURE_UNIT)
        bUnitID                10
        bSourceID               2
        bControlSize            1
        bmaControls( 0)      0x43
          Mute Control
          Volume Control
          Automatic Gain Control
        bmaControls( 1)      0x00
        iFeature                0 
      AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                 9
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      6 (FEATURE_UNIT)
        bUnitID                13
        bSourceID               2
        bControlSize            1
        bmaControls( 0)      0x03
          Mute Control
          Volume Control
        bmaControls( 1)      0x00
        iFeature                0 
      AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                13
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      4 (MIXER_UNIT)
        bUnitID                15
        bNrInPins               2
        baSourceID( 0)          1
        baSourceID( 1)         13
        bNrChannels             2
        wChannelConfig     0x0003
          Left Front (L)
          Right Front (R)
        iChannelNames           0 
        bmControls         0x00
        iMixer                  0 
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        1
      bAlternateSetting       0
      bNumEndpoints           0
      bInterfaceClass         1 Audio
      bInterfaceSubClass      2 Streaming
      bInterfaceProtocol      0 
      iInterface              0 
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        1
      bAlternateSetting       1
      bNumEndpoints           1
      bInterfaceClass         1 Audio
      bInterfaceSubClass      2 Streaming
      bInterfaceProtocol      0 
      iInterface              0 
      AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      1 (AS_GENERAL)
        bTerminalLink           1
        bDelay                  1 frames
        wFormatTag              1 PCM
      AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                14
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      2 (FORMAT_TYPE)
        bFormatType             1 (FORMAT_TYPE_I)
        bNrChannels             2
        bSubframeSize           2
        bBitResolution         16
        bSamFreqType            2 Discrete
        tSamFreq[ 0]        48000
        tSamFreq[ 1]        44100
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 9
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x01  EP 1 OUT
        bmAttributes            9
          Transfer Type            Isochronous
          Synch Type               Adaptive
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x00c8  1x 200 bytes
        bInterval               1
        bRefresh                0
        bSynchAddress           0
        AudioControl Endpoint Descriptor:
          bLength                 7
          bDescriptorType        37
          bDescriptorSubtype      1 (EP_GENERAL)
          bmAttributes         0x01
            Sampling Frequency
          bLockDelayUnits         1 Milliseconds
          wLockDelay              1 Milliseconds
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        2
      bAlternateSetting       0
      bNumEndpoints           0
      bInterfaceClass         1 Audio
      bInterfaceSubClass      2 Streaming
      bInterfaceProtocol      0 
      iInterface              0 
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        2
      bAlternateSetting       1
      bNumEndpoints           1
      bInterfaceClass         1 Audio
      bInterfaceSubClass      2 Streaming
      bInterfaceProtocol      0 
      iInterface              0 
      AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      1 (AS_GENERAL)
        bTerminalLink           7
        bDelay                  1 frames
        wFormatTag              1 PCM
      AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                14
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      2 (FORMAT_TYPE)
        bFormatType             1 (FORMAT_TYPE_I)
        bNrChannels             1
        bSubframeSize           2
        bBitResolution         16
        bSamFreqType            2 Discrete
        tSamFreq[ 0]        48000
        tSamFreq[ 1]        44100
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 9
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x82  EP 2 IN
        bmAttributes            9
          Transfer Type            Isochronous
          Synch Type               Adaptive
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0064  1x 100 bytes
        bInterval               1
        bRefresh                0
        bSynchAddress           0
        AudioControl Endpoint Descriptor:
          bLength                 7
          bDescriptorType        37
          bDescriptorSubtype      1 (EP_GENERAL)
          bmAttributes         0x01
            Sampling Frequency
          bLockDelayUnits         0 Undefined
          wLockDelay              0 Undefined
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        3
      bAlternateSetting       0
      bNumEndpoints           1
      bInterfaceClass         3 Human Interface Device
      bInterfaceSubClass      0 No Subclass
      bInterfaceProtocol      0 None
      iInterface              0 
        HID Device Descriptor:
          bLength                 9
          bDescriptorType        33
          bcdHID               1.00
          bCountryCode            0 Not supported
          bNumDescriptors         1
          bDescriptorType        34 Report
          wDescriptorLength      60
         Report Descriptors: 
           ** UNAVAILABLE **
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x87  EP 7 IN
        bmAttributes            3
          Transfer Type            Interrupt
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0004  1x 4 bytes
        bInterval               2

Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Couldn't open device, some information will be missing
Device Descriptor:
  bLength                18
  bDescriptorType         1
  bcdUSB               1.10
  bDeviceClass            9 Hub
  bDeviceSubClass         0 Unused
  bDeviceProtocol         0 Full speed (or root) hub
  bMaxPacketSize0        64
  idVendor           0x1d6b Linux Foundation
  idProduct          0x0001 1.1 root hub
  bcdDevice            3.12
  iManufacturer           3 
  iProduct                2 
  iSerial                 1 
  bNumConfigurations      1
  Configuration Descriptor:
    bLength                 9
    bDescriptorType         2
    wTotalLength           25
    bNumInterfaces          1
    bConfigurationValue     1
    iConfiguration          0 
    bmAttributes         0xe0
      Self Powered
      Remote Wakeup
    MaxPower                0mA
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        0
      bAlternateSetting       0
      bNumEndpoints           1
      bInterfaceClass         9 Hub
      bInterfaceSubClass      0 Unused
      bInterfaceProtocol      0 Full speed (or root) hub
      iInterface              0 
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x81  EP 1 IN
        bmAttributes            3
          Transfer Type            Interrupt
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0002  1x 2 bytes
        bInterval             255
Posts: 850
fatmac
Joined: 26 Jul 2012
#54
Re opening up a laptop, usually the top panel by the screen hinge area is press fitted, pop this off & you likely will see screws holding the keyboard, remove keyboard to see some access panels,or screws to remove the whole cover plate. All manufacturers differ in how they do this. If you're lucky you might find something online to help.
(I would investigate all 'software' options first as it can be 'trying' to refit/rebuild some laptops.)
Posts: 347
Silent Observer
Joined: 08 Aug 2013
#55
Pursuant to my edit above; it looks like there's a
========= SCRAPER REMOVED AN EMBEDDED LINK HERE ===========
url was:"https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=738714"
linktext was:"known bug in volumeicon-alsa 0.4.6.2"
====================================
(current version in our repos), that causes it to hang at 100% cpu usage when pulseaudio is killed. Given antiX doesn't use pulseaudio by default, I strongly suspect that any attempt to process audio with alsa/oss only is invoking this bug. I'm going to try downgrading to the previous version (after work today, don't have time now) and see if that fixes the issue. If so, I'll happily proceed with a freshly reinstalled antiX and good to go.
Posts: 347
Silent Observer
Joined: 08 Aug 2013
#56
Well, that didn't solve the problem, though with downgrading a package there's a possibility of breaking something else (i.e. being unsure whether the problem you're still haveing is due to the original bug or the downgrade). If there were an easy way to display all the installed packages that depend on a particular package, it'd be relatively simpler to tell if a downgrade is going to break something. As things stand, though, I'm going to put volumeicon-alsa back to 0.4.6-2 (current in testing) and look for another cause of this problem.
Posts: 850
fatmac
Joined: 26 Jul 2012
#57
(Removed post)
Posts: 347
Silent Observer
Joined: 08 Aug 2013
#58
No more suggestions to be had on what to check to try to get the USB sound working again on the old Gateway Solo 2500? After the OS reinstall, it's running very well, and it's found the sound hardware every startup for the last week (I've taken to shutting it down when not in use, since it isn't doing stereo duty until the sound is fixed), but every time I run anything that tries to play a sound, some component of the sound stack starts sucking up every available CPU cycle (if I close volumeicon before trying to check sound, it'll be one of the alsa core components -- I can check which, but I'm not on the laptop at present).
Posts: 630
Eino
Joined: 12 Oct 2012
#59
I don't usually recommend this but, the file etc/modules still has references to the soundcard drivers. You should delete these and leave only the references to the ALSA-driver. (If there are other non-sound-related drivers there, then leave these as-is).
If it is blank, the kernel is loading the needed drivers. .
I'm starting to run short of ideas, for your sound card issues.

If I remember correctly, you needed backwards compatible sound. You need to load the ``OSS compatibility driver''
then"modprobe snd-mixer-oss" and"modprobe snd-pcm-oss"

I don't remember why it worked, it just did.
Posts: 347
Silent Observer
Joined: 08 Aug 2013
#60
I needed oss-compat in order to hear the oss sound from gweled, but xmms was working before I installed that. What originally fixed my USB sound not working (a week or so after I got the device) was editing the"startup" file found under Control Centre, Desktop, Edit Fluxbox Settings to remove the line that prevents a USB sound device from loading as the first sound device. Once alsa was given permission to talk to the USB (as the only detected sound system), alsa-compatible sound started working immediately.

Tonight, I got another clue; I tried running xmms with htop open, checking again how its hogging of CPU cycles started and stopped, and after checking mixer settings, left the window with alsamixer open -- and as soon as xmms started to play, alsamixer reported the sound device was unplugged and asked me to press f6 to select another sound card; this coincided with the light in the sound unit blinking dark for a fraction of a second, as it always has when something starts to play sound. The second or third time I repeated this, alsamixer either froze or quit being able to find the sound card (I didn't close and reopen it to check). This seems (to my inexperienced eye) as if something is causing the port to disconnect momentarily whenever alsa tries to send a sound bitstream through the USB port -- possibly more evidence that the USB ports on this 1997-1998 vintage system are starting to fail?

FWIW, [/]etc/modules contains only the comments (lines starting with #) at the beginning of the file. I have oss-compat installed, and running the modprobes (as root) for snd-mixer-oss and snd-pcm-oss gave no response other than a new command line prompt (i.e. no error message, presumption of successful operation). The result was no change in the sound system behavior.